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PadresfanModsOffline
Post subject: Penalties  PostPosted: Nov 20, 2011 - 02:46 AM



Joined: Jul 21, 2009
Posts: 108

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Hi Phil & Jeff -

Just finished my first game, had a good time. Still trying to wrap my head around the penalties though and could use some help.

First, is there any reason why I can't check for penalties/fumbles after the play result is determined? Seems more natural and suspenseful.

Second, I need some help understanding the Penalty Key.

- For the 5 yds penalties that can be nullified by taking a TO, is this to simulate a delay of game (offense) or too many men on the field (defense)?

- For Offensive PI, your key says 15 yards from the previous LOS, but I thought the penalty was 10 yards?

- For all other offensive penalties, is the yardage always taken from the previous LOS?

- On kickoffs, do we perform a penalty check on the kick and the return?

Thanks!
 
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philrivOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Nov 20, 2011 - 03:35 AM



Joined: Jun 29, 2006
Posts: 99
Location: United Kingdom
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Al,

Thank you for having purchased the game and reviewing it on Delphi.

First, is there any reason why I can't check for penalties/fumbles after the play result is determined? Seems more natural and suspenseful.
FAF was designed with penalties being applied directly, not optional. This is why we recommend checking first.
You may have noticed that we are giving the users quite a lot of freedom, not only with optional rules but also with procedures.
Therefore, there is no reason for you to not check penalties at the end of play if you wish to do so.
However, be aware that statiscally, you will have less penalties per game if you use the option between penalty and play result. Entirely your choice.

- For the 5 yds penalties that can be nullified by taking a TO, is this to simulate a delay of game (offense) or too many men on the field (defense)?
Correct.

- For Offensive PI, your key says 15 yards from the previous LOS, but I thought the penalty was 10 yards?
My mistake. The game was originally designed around college football where offensive PI is a 15yds penalty. I should have included the NFL yardage.

- For all other offensive penalties, is the yardage always taken from the previous LOS?
Yes. Remember that the system is designed to implement penalties directly. This simplifies the process.

- On kickoffs, do we perform a penalty check on the kick and the return?
No. Just one check on the return. The only result that may be affecting the kickoff itself is a kick out of bound. Other results will be penalties taking place during the return.

Other than that, remember that we give the user freedom for playcalling.
If you decide to use the game autocall system, recommended for statistical accuracy, you could use the following which we applied during playtesting.
On third down only:
3rd and 3 or less, automatic run call

3rd and 6 or more, automatic pass call

3rd and 4 or 5, use the game autocall system.

Phil.
 
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PadresfanModsOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Nov 20, 2011 - 10:57 AM



Joined: Jul 21, 2009
Posts: 108

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philriv wrote:
Al,

Thank you for having purchased the game and reviewing it on Delphi.

First, is there any reason why I can't check for penalties/fumbles after the play result is determined? Seems more natural and suspenseful.
FAF was designed with penalties being applied directly, not optional. This is why we recommend checking first.
You may have noticed that we are giving the users quite a lot of freedom, not only with optional rules but also with procedures.
Therefore, there is no reason for you to not check penalties at the end of play if you wish to do so.
However, be aware that statiscally, you will have less penalties per game if you use the option between penalty and play result. Entirely your choice.


Phil - Thanks for all of the answers and for the play calling tips. I feel like I'm still missing something from a design standpoint with regards to the penalties. Can you explain what you mean by "applied directly" vs. optional? I don't understand how checking at the beginning of the play can be statistically different than checking at the end of the play.

Wait, maybe the lightbulb just went off. Do you mean that if a penalty comes up that the player is supposed to apply it immediately and isn't supposed to resolve the play?
 
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philrivOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Nov 20, 2011 - 01:35 PM



Joined: Jun 29, 2006
Posts: 99
Location: United Kingdom
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Wait, maybe the lightbulb just went off. Do you mean that if a penalty comes up that the player is supposed to apply it immediately and isn't supposed to resolve the play?

Correct.
 
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PadresfanModsOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Nov 20, 2011 - 01:52 PM



Joined: Jul 21, 2009
Posts: 108

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philriv wrote:
Wait, maybe the lightbulb just went off. Do you mean that if a penalty comes up that the player is supposed to apply it immediately and isn't supposed to resolve the play?

Correct.


Got it! See my post on Delphi. My humble opinion is that the rules are misleading as written. Very Happy
 
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galarilOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Nov 20, 2011 - 06:37 PM



Joined: Jul 09, 2008
Posts: 341

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philriv wrote:
Wait, maybe the lightbulb just went off. Do you mean that if a penalty comes up that the player is supposed to apply it immediately and isn't supposed to resolve the play?

Correct.


Phil,

I love this spin on penalties i got the game and a season and have enjoyed playing a pair of games. This looks like a great companion to Game Winning Drive! I t appears you and Jeff got a winner here. I only wish the team sheets were in team colors like GWD no biggie of course just saying. One question I have actually printed out three decks of facs as it looks like from my playing the two decks you recommend get cycled through about three times a game. So, not for any randomness reason but more so as to not have to keep reshuffling the cards is why I went with three decks.
 
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philrivOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Nov 21, 2011 - 01:24 PM



Joined: Jun 29, 2006
Posts: 99
Location: United Kingdom
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[quote="galaril"][quote="philriv"]Wait, maybe the lightbulb just went off. Do you mean that if a penalty comes up that the player is supposed to apply it immediately and isnDan,

Glad you like the game. Sorry about the monchrome layout. Jeff and I decided to tone things down a little and produce charts that would not be too expensive to print for ebook purchasers.
Three decks is fine.
Did you purchase the 1980s college set with Air Force 1985 and 1983?

Phil.
 
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galarilOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Nov 21, 2011 - 01:29 PM



Joined: Jul 09, 2008
Posts: 341

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[quote="philriv"][quote="galaril"]
philriv wrote:
Wait, maybe the lightbulb just went off. Do you mean that if a penalty comes up that the player is supposed to apply it immediately and isnDan,

Glad you like the game. Sorry about the monchrome layout. Jeff and I decided to tone things down a little and produce charts that would not be too expensive to print for ebook purchasers.
Three decks is fine.
Did you purchase the 1980s college set with Air Force 1985 and 1983?

Phil.


Not yet on the NCAA 80s sets since I got the 93 NFL set Once I found out this was one of yours I knew I would be buying ALOT of seasons shortly.
 
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PadresfanModsOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Nov 21, 2011 - 03:08 PM



Joined: Jul 21, 2009
Posts: 108

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Yeah, monochrome is boring! Very Happy Just kidding Phil..... However, this weekend we got ourselves a color laser printer for the house, an awesome development for my paper-game hobby....

I've already created a new game play chart that consolidates the Penalty Chart/Key, Time markings, Quarter, Down, and field for LOS and first down markers. Makes the small footprint even smaller and adds some color. Phil, I'm going to send a sample to Jeff, and if you'd like to see it too, just shoot me your e-mail address at padresfanmods@mac.com.

I'll probably add some team logos to the team PDFs for fun too... Very Happy
 
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galarilOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Nov 21, 2011 - 05:36 PM



Joined: Jul 09, 2008
Posts: 341

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PadresfanMods wrote:
Yeah, monochrome is boring! Very Happy Just kidding Phil..... However, this weekend we got ourselves a color laser printer for the house, an awesome development for my paper-game hobby....

I've already created a new game play chart that consolidates the Penalty Chart/Key, Time markings, Quarter, Down, and field for LOS and first down markers. Makes the small footprint even smaller and adds some color. Phil, I'm going to send a sample to Jeff, and if you'd like to see it too, just shoot me your e-mail address at padresfanmods@mac.com.

I'll probably add some team logos to the team PDFs for fun too... Very Happy


padre I wish I had the skill editing PDF you doi to add the logos. Also, I look forward to that chart being released in the near future.`

Dan
 
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PadresfanModsOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Nov 21, 2011 - 06:20 PM



Joined: Jul 21, 2009
Posts: 108

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galaril wrote:

padre I wish I had the skill editing PDF you doi to add the logos. Also, I look forward to that chart being released in the near future.`

Dan


Dan, shoot me an e-mail.

Al
 
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galarilOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Nov 21, 2011 - 09:45 PM



Joined: Jul 09, 2008
Posts: 341

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PadresfanMods wrote:
galaril wrote:

padre I wish I had the skill editing PDF you doi to add the logos. Also, I look forward to that chart being released in the near future.`

Dan


Dan, shoot me an e-mail.

Al


I just did.
 
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