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indianaiceOffline
Post subject: Rules interpretation for Data Boxing Board Game  PostPosted: Jul 27, 2008 - 10:38 AM



Joined: Nov 21, 2006
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I pulled out DB for the first time in a while and played a 10 round bout between Tommy Burns and Marvin Hart. First 4 rounds, Hart knocked Burns down twice while Hart got knocked down once. In the 5th round I came across this and I want to know if I did it right.

Hart rolled a 3 which gave him on offense:
K1/TKO/N2/INJ

Since Burns was a N2W, that should knock Burns down for a third time in the fight. However since Hart got all those offensive chances I rolled for Burns Defense. He got the following:
K1/TKO/Cut/Inj.

I scored this as a Knockout since K1 came up (Knockout after 1 or more knockdowns).

Did I do this right?

Edward R. Meek
 
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anothersiteOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jul 27, 2008 - 06:00 PM



Joined: May 07, 2006
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Yes, at least according to me. Wink

For what it's worth, I would have scored the K1 just like you did. If the K1 did not come up on the Burns defensive roll, then I would have scored the N2 of Burns (unless the power blow was nullified).

BTW, I would have also scored the Hart INJ against Burns.
 
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indianaiceOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jul 27, 2008 - 08:29 PM



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I actually answered my own question by reading the rules thoroughly......That Burns-Hart contest was a slugfest with four knockdowns total with the final one doing Burns in. I also played off a couple more bouts, one where Joe Choyinski decked Jess Willard for a 50 second knockout. Burns fought Ali and hit the canvas three times before the referee stopped the fight. Burns did not score a single point in the 4 round contest. One other contest was a replay of the Burns-Johnson fight. Fight ended on a TKO in the 11th after Burns was cut and injured six times. Only suprise of the fight was Burns scoring a knockdown in the fourth round but it was all Johnson.

DB is definatly the DEAN of all Boxing Games. You have a terrific feel for the bout and you can see a fighter wear another down during the bout. I am going to do a few more matches tonight before bedtime.

Edward R. Meek
 
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anothersiteOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jul 27, 2008 - 08:58 PM



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So, I'm curious after "reading the rules thoroughly" ... do you score the INJ and CUT with a knockout blow? Smile
 
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indianaiceOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jul 27, 2008 - 09:29 PM



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I went ahead and added that because it was a total exchange....
I did 2 more fights, Liston knocked out Dempsey in 8 after Dempsey went down twice in the second and for the last time in the 8th but not before both men punished each other scoring 4 cuts and injuries a piece. In a tame bout, Joe Choyinski knocked out Jack Sharkey in the 4th round after 3 silly slap rounds. I also discovered a moment ago that I FORGOT to roll a 3rd time for Liston for nullification since he was 22%......and the roll was nullified.......so one thing is certain, watch for all nullification rolls. Besides, it was a slugfest and bloodbath so I needed to end it sooner or later before one went to the morgue. Not really up on boxing history but did Dempsey really suffered a lot of cuts and injuries during his pro career? His Defensive card showed that a lot! I guess the fighters he went against were either bums or he just pummeled his foes in the early going. Liston was the same as well with both fighters having over 10 power rolls in the first three rounds combined....
 
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anothersiteOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jul 27, 2008 - 10:29 PM



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indianaice wrote:
I went ahead and added that because it was a total exchange....
I do it that way also. Here is what I do. If both a K and N are defensively matched, then only the K is scored to end the bout. If both a K and TKO are scored, then only the K is scored to end the bout. Because the way TKOs and Ns are placed on the defensive side, I cannot say that I have had both a TKO and N defensively matched.
indianaice wrote:
I did 2 more fights, Liston knocked out Dempsey in 8 after Dempsey went down twice in the second and for the last time in the 8th but not before both men punished each other scoring 4 cuts and injuries a piece. In a tame bout, Joe Choyinski knocked out Jack Sharkey in the 4th round after 3 silly slap rounds. I also discovered a moment ago that I FORGOT to roll a 3rd time for Liston for nullification since he was 22%......and the roll was nullified.......so one thing is certain, watch for all nullification rolls. Besides, it was a slugfest and bloodbath so I needed to end it sooner or later before one went to the morgue. Not really up on boxing history but did Dempsey really suffered a lot of cuts and injuries during his pro career? His Defensive card showed that a lot! I guess the fighters he went against were either bums or he just pummeled his foes in the early going. Liston was the same as well with both fighters having over 10 power rolls in the first three rounds combined....
Yeah, I sometimes forget about the nullification rolls also. DB is a great solitaire game, but it curiously works as a two player game also. It that situation, I never forget. Smile

I think that power blows and their interactions are what makes DB so great. Dempsey probably is rated relatively poorly (worse than the standard INJ/CUT on 13 and 14 defensively) so that some INJ and CUT do occur even though Dempsey is in control much of the time so that lesser opponents get fewer exchange opportunities.

Happy Dice Rolling! Smile

PS I think that PC DB game is great (in particular, the dialog is fantastic), and I am always intrigued by what Big_City comes up with, however I personally enjoy the dice rolled games. Shrug.
 
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DRDATABOXOffline
Post subject: either/or  PostPosted: Jul 27, 2008 - 11:20 PM



Joined: Apr 28, 2006
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Choice: It's dice and your own commentary, or the PC and Don's or the alternative narrative. The color of baseball and boxing are both really magical.
 
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Big_CityOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jul 27, 2008 - 11:37 PM



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anothersite wrote:
indianaice wrote:
I went ahead and added that because it was a total exchange....
I do it that way also. Here is what I do. If both a K and N are defensively matched, then only the K is scored to end the bout. If both a K and TKO are scored, then only the K is scored to end the bout. Because the way TKOs and Ns are placed on the defensive side, I cannot say that I have had both a TKO and N defensively matched.
indianaice wrote:
I did 2 more fights, Liston knocked out Dempsey in 8 after Dempsey went down twice in the second and for the last time in the 8th but not before both men punished each other scoring 4 cuts and injuries a piece. In a tame bout, Joe Choyinski knocked out Jack Sharkey in the 4th round after 3 silly slap rounds. I also discovered a moment ago that I FORGOT to roll a 3rd time for Liston for nullification since he was 22%......and the roll was nullified.......so one thing is certain, watch for all nullification rolls. Besides, it was a slugfest and bloodbath so I needed to end it sooner or later before one went to the morgue. Not really up on boxing history but did Dempsey really suffered a lot of cuts and injuries during his pro career? His Defensive card showed that a lot! I guess the fighters he went against were either bums or he just pummeled his foes in the early going. Liston was the same as well with both fighters having over 10 power rolls in the first three rounds combined....
Yeah, I sometimes forget about the nullification rolls also. DB is a great solitaire game, but it curiously works as a two player game also. It that situation, I never forget. Smile

I think that power blows and their interactions are what makes DB so great. Dempsey probably is rated relatively poorly (worse than the standard INJ/CUT on 13 and 14 defensively) so that some INJ and CUT do occur even though Dempsey is in control much of the time so that lesser opponents get fewer exchange opportunities.

Happy Dice Rolling! Smile

PS I think that PC DB game is great (in particular, the dialog is fantastic), and I am always intrigued by what Big_City comes up with, however I personally enjoy the dice rolled games. Shrug.


Good to hear from a couple of other Data Boxers. I enjoy sharing Data Boxing results with other gamers. That sounded like a couple of wild fights between Hart-Burns and Dempsey-Liston! It's great to be able to have the whole history of boxing awaiting at the computer and/or dining table with Data Boxing (although most of my DB bouts are staged with the computer version, I still play the DB table game that I've had since 1981 using both the Rounds Cards and dice methods.)

My Data Boxing Journal: http://mydataboxingjournal.blogspot.com/

_________________
"So I run straight to the goal with purpose in every step. I fight to win. I'm not just shadow-boxing or playing around." (I Cor. 9:26)
 
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indianaiceOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jul 28, 2008 - 12:23 AM



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Looking at Hart's card and Burns, I would not have thought that it would turn out the way it did. Looking at Burns' defensive and most have INJ/Cut so I assume that card was rated for the Johnson fight and not all of his fights. I see that both Burns and Hart have LH cards and both are relatively tame for both offense and defense, so the Burns Heavy card has to be from the Johnson fight where Johnson beat him like a rag doll.

I don't have the round cards. Does it make a difference using that in comparison to rolling for every exchange? Is the Round cards still available?

I do have Data Boxing 6.0. Some of the fights that I have had on tabletop, I go to the computer version and see how it runs on there. I don't do the 100 fight comparison only because it tends to freeze up or give me some dumb error code, so I just play one match and that is that.....

I may try a little project and match up the first six heavyweight champions against each other to see who is the best, then proceed to the next six, do the same, etc.....then take every top fighter in each group and match each one of them up against each other to see who is the best over a long haul......my one question is do I have enough patience to forgo such a tourney......stay tuned!

Ed
 
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Big_CityOffline
Post subject: DATA BOXING  PostPosted: Jul 28, 2008 - 08:42 PM



Joined: Mar 19, 2006
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Way back in 1981, when I started playing Data Boxing (1980 edition), the gaming system included Rounds Cards in addition to the dice method. The Rounds Card method gives quick results by providing a summary of each round rather than a blow-by-blow account as the dice method does. I find both the computer and board game versions of Data Boxing to be very interesting and entertaining (the computer version of DB, which paralells the structure of the original board game, appeals most to me). As Dr. Compton stated in the introduction to the 1980 edition of the board game, DB is a game you can play for a lifetime!

P.S. Intrigued with the Burns-Hart and Dempsey-Liston matchups, I staged a 100 bout series for both matchups (Dempsey-Liston was
set to terminate early if a significant result was achieved at the .1% level).

Burns-Hart: 76-20-4; 6-11 KOs, 16-0 TKOs
Dempsey-Liston: 24-5-0; 13-5 KOs, 11-0 TKOs

P.P.S. Your idea for a HW tournament project sounds interesting. I would be interested in seeing your results should you decide to stage the tourney.

_________________
"So I run straight to the goal with purpose in every step. I fight to win. I'm not just shadow-boxing or playing around." (I Cor. 9:26)


Last edited by Big_City on Jul 29, 2008 - 01:59 PM; edited 3 times in total
 
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anothersiteOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jul 28, 2008 - 10:52 PM



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indianaice wrote:
<clipped>I don't have the round cards. Does it make a difference using that in comparison to rolling for every exchange? Is the Round cards still available?<clipped>
There are 54 Rounds Cards in a deck. (BTW, 54 is 1/4 of the 216 possible combinations that three six sided dice can generate: 6 * 6 * 6 = 216.) Each boxer gets one card that has a power type blow "roll" (3, 4, 14, 16, 17, and 18; 15 occurs with one of the other blows because few boxers have power blows on 15), a defensive "roll" and total rounds scoring based on the boxer's point rating (e.g., Ali is 85 and Sullivan is 66) adjusted for offensive and defensive Power Rating (i.e., the A to D stuff). There is even a Power number to use when boxers get, or give, Powers in a round. Occasionally extra cards are dealt in a round when the Powers or defensive roll numbers are used up.

Games are very fast, as you can imagine. Frankly, I am dumbfounded at how "real" the Rounds Card version of DB seems. The only thing that you don't get are the outlier rounds, like when Ali goes off for 24 points in a round without a knockdown. Wink

I am not sure what you mean by does it "make a difference." Difference in results? Good question. I have never done a large enough series to know for sure, the Rounds Card results do seem good and in line with the dice rolling version.

Unfortunately, I doubt the Rounds Cards are still available.

Good luck on your HW tournament.
 
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indianaiceOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jul 29, 2008 - 08:49 PM



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Thanks for the description of the round cards. when I asked if it made any difference, I meant that would it be more realistic or not? I read some time ago that the rounds cards made the game lightning quick.

I would be interested in a copy of the cards if anyone has an extra set lying around.

ED
 
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anothersiteOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jul 29, 2008 - 09:42 PM



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I believe that I have two Rounds Card sets. They are used, of course, but the parts are there. Are you still interested, if I can find my two sets? [I have to keep one for myself. Wink ]
 
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DRDATABOXOffline
Post subject: ROUNDS CARDS- NOT FOR FREE  PostPosted: Jul 29, 2008 - 11:52 PM



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Since the rounds cards are a copyrighted part of Data Boxing but not a part of the current PC version, I guess it is my decision as to how they should be sold. Let's see how many are interested.
 
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indianaiceOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jul 30, 2008 - 02:09 AM



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anothersite wrote:
I believe that I have two Rounds Card sets. They are used, of course, but the parts are there. Are you still interested, if I can find my two sets? [I have to keep one for myself. Wink ]


That would be great. Let me know how much and I can do a paypal.

Edward R. Meek
 
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